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Posted: 04 Oct 2012, 02:00
And now we know why Obito is being such a dick. I don't know if I missed something from Kakashi Gaiden chapters or whatever, but...
Why did Kakashi kill Rin?
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 04 Oct 2012, 04:06
Yeah I don't know anything about why. The Kakashi Gaiden chapters definitely didn't allude to that. Getting that information so late in the game definitely feels weird, but I guess we've never really got into Kakashi's mind much.
I'm guessing either there was a scenario where only one of them could live, or Rin was possessed by something. But possibly a more stupid explanation like Kakashi fell under a genjutsu or he accidentally hit her since he hadn't perfected the Raikiri yet. But now I'm confused as to why Obito said "you let Rin die" some chapters ago though. Seems more proper to say "you killed Rin." Perhaps that was a translation error though, and the text should have read something closer to "you didn't protect Rin." Hopefully we'll get a decent explanation next chapter. And hopefully next chapter will be our last flashback. They're real cool but with the series basically at the climax of the climax arc, I want to get back to the present.
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 04 Oct 2012, 12:20
Oh, good thoughts, good thoughts. Yeah, it is odd to get this flashback now, but it's actually interesting. Unlike Bleach.
Being controlled by a genjutsu seems unlikely, with his new Sharingan. And Rin being controlled also seems unlikely, because Kakashi could dispel it just by touching her and shouting that magic word that I forgot because it's been so long since they used it. Even if he couldn't dispel it, surely he'd find another way to stop her that didn't involve a fatal hole in her chest, though props for that split-second boob grab.
Far more likely was your theory of him not being able to fully control the Raikiri. I do remember him saying he couldn't see when he was using it. Perhaps in his attempt to save her, he accidentally hit her instead?
As for the "you let Rin die", I'm gonna have to agree that it was probably just a translation error. I doubt Kishimoto wrote one thing and then changed his mind a few chapters later. He seems like the kind of guy who plans out everything ahead of time instead of just going with the flow.
Unless... It wasn't an error, and Kakashi did let her die. Perhaps the person we saw kill Rin was someone posing as Kakashi? Like, using the body transformation Jutsu, to get close to Rin... They'd have to be from a country that uses lightning Jutsu, obviously, but plausible?
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 05 Oct 2012, 02:05
Oh yeah that's true I forgot about how easy one can dispel a Genjutsu when with a partner. I think the word is "Kai" (means release I think?).
The clone theory is definitely an interesting one since we know outside the bounds of Konoha the Raikiri is not actually all that special and unique of a trick. You just need a Jounin with a lightning affinity. But Kakashi's Sharingan eye was crying, so that could imply he is actually the one who is getting a bit too intimate with Rin in that chest molest. I'm currently leaning toward lack of Raikiri control. It's weird though. His face doesn't look as shocked as I would imagine if he did make a mistake. He has that "well this is how things had to be" look on his face. Maybe Rin was a turning to the Rock. Or always with them. That'd be an asspull.
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 10 Oct 2012, 15:07
Well, I think I get it now.
Rin was working with the Hidden Mist. She must have been from there and sent to Konoha as a spy, and Kakashi found out during the big fight. No other reason for the Hidden Mist to want her body back, and the stuff they mentioned about Kakashi finding out or whatever. Obito is looking like a boss right now.
In conclusion, Naruto is actually quite interesting. LEARN FROM THIS, TITE KUBO.
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 11 Oct 2012, 04:17
Yeah I agree.
Funny that's the option I thought would be the most ridiculous given how innocent Rin has been portrayed throughout the series. But I don't know, I wasn't raging at the screen when things turned out that way. The only other thing that seems viable right now is that Rin could have had a bloodline limit that the Mist wanted. The shock on her face still doesn't match up with her being a secret Mist agent, but she could have been under some Sasori-esque genjutsu that tricked her into thinking she really was with Konoha.
Another thought I have: Maybe a Mist ninja genjutsu'd Rin into some passive spy mode to get sensitive information about how to defeat Minato. Since killing Minato alone could change the tides of the war, as entire armies were ordered to retreat if they spotted him on the battlefield. Then we are seeing the Mist as they come to harvest that information from Rin's mind, and Kakashi kills her upon realizing the threat of such information getting into the wrong hands. The Stone did capture and try to interrogate Rin in the Kakashi Gaiden arc. Maybe the Mist and Stone were allied, and a little more went on in that scene than we were actually told.
But I was a bit annoyed half of 605 was just Obito going "UOOOOOHHHH!" and stabbing guys. I wanted more information than we got but I guess we did get the possibilities narrowed down at least.
Also, gonna go out on a limb and say the goofy spiral Zetsu clone (currently surrounding Obito's body) actually was the original Tobi of Akatsuki, and he did die when Deidara blew himself up.
Yeah Bleach was a joke this week as always. The final page was amazing. Felt like he just went "Oh yeah, I forgot to add a cliffhanger to this chapter. EXPLOSIONS IN THE SKY."
EDIT: Hey it is just hitting me too; why isn't Obito blind in his native Sharingan eye? He uses Kamui all the time. If that Mangekyo ability works like Shunsui's unique Sharingan ability, then it is specific to Obito's eye. And if that is so, then an eye transplant would make him lose the ability. With such constant Mangekyo use I would assume he should be blind in that eye by now. But maybe that is a passive trait of the Kamui that just does activate, much like Gaara's original Shikaku sand. If so, I wonder if Kakashi's use of the Kamui is the "active" use, and further if Obito can use the ability like that. But I suppose he would not want to use it like that if the active use is what really makes one go blind.
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 11 Oct 2012, 13:33
I don't fully understand the last bit about passive and active abilities for the Sharingan... My memory isn't the best. I don't even know who or what Shunsui is.
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 11 Oct 2012, 18:25
Shunsui is from Bleach, I totally meant to say Shisui. That's the Uchiha who had the Code Geass eye that Danzou stole. Itachi had his other eye and put it in the crow that he stuffed into Naruto.
I don't think they have defined any passive abilities to the Sharingan actually, I was just speculating Kamui might work in a way that is not consciously activated (i.e. it doesn't activate like Amaterasu in that the user does not have to think "now I'm going to use Kamui"). Like how Gaara didn't defend himself with the Shukaku sand (again I Bleached up and said Shikaku earlier), but rather the sand just does defend him without his own volition. So like if I put my hand on Obito and he has his Sharingan active, my hand just goes through him no matter what. He can't prevent my hand from doing so unless he turns off his Sharingan. If his Kamui worked like that then I would be more inclined to see his lack of blindness as not a plothole. Of course, there are complications for this in that he seems to materialize his own body parts of his own will whenever he attacks. But then you could just say the Kamui is a passive trait that triggers on external force/contact to his body. There is one case in the series that contradicts this though, and that is how Obito got his arm taken off by Danzou's bug underling so long ago. In the way I've described, such a thing wouldn't be possible. But then again, I think he had sucked the other guy's body into his alternate dimension via a more active use of the Kamui, and that could have complicated the passive ability.
Who knows though. Maybe Kamui is just like a mutation of Izanagi that manifests in oneself upon achieving the Mangekyo when one only has two tomoe in his Sharingan eye, and somehow that relieves one from the blindness drawback. That'd be pretty tragic if so since two-tomoe Sharingan users are normally young, having just activated their eye abilities, and the Kamui removes one from physical dangers. Added on to the fact that the Mangekyo is activated from the death of one's closest friend, the Kamui seems like a denial of the real world. Like a kid running back into his house where he is safe. Which lines up with the Moon's Eye Plan rather well. Look at Naruto being all deep.
I'm also a little interested in knowing if Obito has access to the traditional Mangekyo abilities like Susano'o. If Kamui just flat out does not lead to blindness somehow, I suppose he would never use the traditional Mangekyo abilities at the risk of going blind and losing Kamui.
Re: Naruto 
Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 01:11
Wow. Everything suddenly makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining that all to me, and removing the Bleach references that threw me for a loop. Lol.
Yeah, the whole 'denial of the real world' thing is pretty intense, and it does line up with his idea for the Moon's Eye Plan. An ideal world where no one experiences pain, just like Kamui... Naruto is really sucking me in with this shit now~